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 The Morality of Three Sirenix Wishes

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zerowing21
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PostSubject: The Morality of Three Sirenix Wishes   Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:55 pm

Now, I'm sure this may have been talked to death, but this is my own view point on the matter. We all know the Winx (minus Musa) each had a wish for pleasing destiny and used it for whatever they wanted. Three of these wishes while in the show are presented as being good to the overall plot or the character, are in fact morally questionable at best.

Stella's wish was to have her parents to get along and see eye to eye with each other after years of fighting and what not. This is a selfish wish, but its also using powerful magic to change how a person acts and behaves. This isn't very ethical and moral to any extent and of course magic of this type has been condemned earlier in the series when Valtor altered Radius mind to be controlled by Chimera and her mother, which again was done out of a selfish reason. So in the end, how is Stella moral and in the right for doing this, while Chimera and her mother (Albeit thought Valtor) are not, when they've done the exact same thing?

The same can be said of Tecna's wish. While the king of Zenith did not want to go to battle with Tritannus, her wish in the end was to get the people of zenith to be more connected to the magic dimension. How is this ethical to push an entire planet to try and connect with others though mind altering magic and then use them by pushing them into a war, even if the king at first wasn't interested in the fight with others and later agrees to go to it because of a battle with said evil fish that the winx won, thus allowing Tecna to get the wish to change the people, thought minor manipulations of the king? This is amoral behavior from Tecna, but presented as morally right due to the Winx being the good guys and a way to build up their forces. This is some shady stuff that puts her on the same ground as Valtor and others, who have tried to control/change people by using them for whatever they wanted. Tecna committed to using her own people like one of computer tools like it was nothing.

Flora is our third case here. Her wish was to have all the people of Earth respect nature. How is it once again using magic to control/change people ethical? Yes it was a season based on saving the oceans, but in the end, is no better then others who have changed people via magic. She may have done this for a greater good, but you can't just force people to change instantly and is rather morally questionable.

Not to mention it goes against Flora's nature of being a kind and gentle person of forcing people to accept a view point so suddenly. The Earth fairies in the Amazon could have done something in a better moral way to achieve this goal over time then Flora could have with a wish. Of course, this was also a way to inhibit Tritannus from getting even more powerful from Earth's trash and to move the story forward. When does throwing out ones morals became justifiable to achieve a victory in such a way?

So in the end, what are your thoughts on this matter? From a non story stand point, are these three wishes immoral or moral? Have Tecna, Stella and Flora grayed themselves toward slowly head down the root of possibly becoming villains in the end?

*minor change to the Tenca argument*

________________________________________________________________

The Avatar was done by Chrissie.

"But perhaps victory is in the simpler things that you've long forgotten—things that require a smaller, more honest soul." Professor Ozpin, RWBY


Last edited by zerowing21 on Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:53 pm; edited 3 times in total
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talgoose
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PostSubject: Re: The Morality of Three Sirenix Wishes   Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:17 pm

@zerowing21 wrote:
Now, I'm sure this may have been talked to death, but this is my own view point on the matter. We all know the Winx (minus Musa) each had a wish for pleasing destiny and used it for whatever they wanted. Three of these wishes while in the show are presented as being good to the overall plot or the character, are in fact morally questionable at best.

Stella's wish was to have her parents to get along and see eye to eye with each other after years of fighting and what not. This is a selfish wish, but its also using powerful magic to change how a person acts and behaves. This isn't very ethical and moral to any extent and of course magic of this type has been condemned earlier in the series when Valtor altered Radius mind to be controlled by Chimera and her mother, which again was done out of a selfish reason. So in the end, how is Stella moral and in the right for doing this, while Chimera and her mother (Albeit thought Valtor) are not, when they've done the exact same thing?

The same can be said of Tecna's wish. While the king of Zenith did not want to go to battle with Tritannus, her wish in the end was to get the people of zenith to be more connected to the magic dimension. How is this ethical to push an entire planet to try and connect with others though mind altering magic and then use them by pushing them into a war, even if the king at first wasn't interested in the fight and later agrees to go to it because of the altering of his mind? This is amoral behavior from Tecna, but presented as morally right due to the Winx being the good guys and a way to build up their forces. This is some shady stuff that puts her on the same ground as Valtor and others, who have tried to control/change people by using them for whatever they wanted. Tecna committed to using her own people like one of computer tools like it was nothing.

Flora is our third case here. Her wish was to have all the people of Earth respect nature. How is it once again using magic to control/change people ethical? Yes it was a season based on saving the oceans, but in the end, is no better then others who have changed people via magic. She may have done this for a greater good, but you can't just force people to change instantly and is rather morally questionable.

Not to mention it goes against Flora's nature of being a kind and gentle person of forcing people to accept a view point so suddenly. The Earth fairies in the Amazon could have done something in a better moral way to achieve this goal over time then Flora could have with a wish. Of course, this was also a way to inhibit Tritannus from getting even more powerful from Earth's trash and to move the story forward. When does throwing out ones morals became justifiable to achieve a victory in such a way?

So in the end, what are your thoughts on this matter? From a non story stand point, are these three wishes immoral or moral? Have Tecna, Stella and Flora grayed themselves toward slowly head down the root of possibly becoming villains in the end?

Probably they didn't use the wishes todo forcefully "control" their wills as we understand, probably they use the wish only to "show" to the target of the wishes what they could losas if they maintain the sale pattern, something similar todo how the three ghost of christmas show to scrooge what will happen him if he don change his way, and i hace the question; stella's patente still together por separated?

________________________________________________________________

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zerowing21
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PostSubject: Re: The Morality of Three Sirenix Wishes   Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:33 pm

From my understanding, the wishes don't show anything to people. The wish just activates and the people just change according to it since its a powerful magical force. And as of season 6, Stella's parents are not remarried, but on good terms and and what not due to the wish.

________________________________________________________________

The Avatar was done by Chrissie.

"But perhaps victory is in the simpler things that you've long forgotten—things that require a smaller, more honest soul." Professor Ozpin, RWBY
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yukai5
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PostSubject: Re: The Morality of Three Sirenix Wishes   Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:35 pm

@talgoose wrote:
@zerowing21 wrote:
Now, I'm sure this may have been talked to death, but this is my own view point on the matter. We all know the Winx (minus Musa) each had a wish for pleasing destiny and used it for whatever they wanted. Three of these wishes while in the show are presented as being good to the overall plot or the character, are in fact morally questionable at best.

Stella's wish was to have her parents to get along and see eye to eye with each other after years of fighting and what not. This is a selfish wish, but its also using powerful magic to change how a person acts and behaves. This isn't very ethical and moral to any extent and of course magic of this type has been condemned earlier in the series when Valtor altered Radius mind to be controlled by Chimera and her mother, which again was done out of a selfish reason. So in the end, how is Stella moral and in the right for doing this, while Chimera and her mother (Albeit thought Valtor) are not, when they've done the exact same thing?

The same can be said of Tecna's wish. While the king of Zenith did not want to go to battle with Tritannus, her wish in the end was to get the people of zenith to be more connected to the magic dimension. How is this ethical to push an entire planet to try and connect with others though mind altering magic and then use them by pushing them into a war, even if the king at first wasn't interested in the fight and later agrees to go to it because of the altering of his mind? This is amoral behavior from Tecna, but presented as morally right due to the Winx being the good guys and a way to build up their forces. This is some shady stuff that puts her on the same ground as Valtor and others, who have tried to control/change people by using them for whatever they wanted. Tecna committed to using her own people like one of computer tools like it was nothing.

Flora is our third case here. Her wish was to have all the people of Earth respect nature. How is it once again using magic to control/change people ethical? Yes it was a season based on saving the oceans, but in the end, is no better then others who have changed people via magic. She may have done this for a greater good, but you can't just force people to change instantly and is rather morally questionable.

Not to mention it goes against Flora's nature of being a kind and gentle person of forcing people to accept a view point so suddenly. The Earth fairies in the Amazon could have done something in a better moral way to achieve this goal over time then Flora could have with a wish. Of course, this was also a way to inhibit Tritannus from getting even more powerful from Earth's trash and to move the story forward. When does throwing out ones morals became justifiable to achieve a victory in such a way?

So in the end, what are your thoughts on this matter? From a non story stand point, are these three wishes immoral or moral? Have Tecna, Stella and Flora grayed themselves toward slowly head down the root of possibly becoming villains in the end?

Probably they didn't use the wishes todo forcefully "control" their wills as we understand,  probably they use the wish only to "show" to the target of the wishes what they could losas if they maintain the sale pattern, something similar todo how the three ghost of christmas show to scrooge what will happen him if he don change his way, and i hace the question; stella's patente still together por separated?
Yes they are still apart, and at the end of the day, it was their choice. It was not like "Do this or something bad happens", they chose to do it because in their minds, it was the right thing to do, though two out of three wishes we don't see in effect, like at all. Stella's wish was visible, but that doesn't mean that her parents gotten back together.

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talgoose
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PostSubject: Re: The Morality of Three Sirenix Wishes   Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:19 am

@yukai5 wrote:
@talgoose wrote:
@zerowing21 wrote:
Now, I'm sure this may have been talked to death, but this is my own view point on the matter. We all know the Winx (minus Musa) each had a wish for pleasing destiny and used it for whatever they wanted. Three of these wishes while in the show are presented as being good to the overall plot or the character, are in fact morally questionable at best.

Stella's wish was to have her parents to get along and see eye to eye with each other after years of fighting and what not. This is a selfish wish, but its also using powerful magic to change how a person acts and behaves. This isn't very ethical and moral to any extent and of course magic of this type has been condemned earlier in the series when Valtor altered Radius mind to be controlled by Chimera and her mother, which again was done out of a selfish reason. So in the end, how is Stella moral and in the right for doing this, while Chimera and her mother (Albeit thought Valtor) are not, when they've done the exact same thing?

The same can be said of Tecna's wish. While the king of Zenith did not want to go to battle with Tritannus, her wish in the end was to get the people of zenith to be more connected to the magic dimension. How is this ethical to push an entire planet to try and connect with others though mind altering magic and then use them by pushing them into a war, even if the king at first wasn't interested in the fight and later agrees to go to it because of the altering of his mind? This is amoral behavior from Tecna, but presented as morally right due to the Winx being the good guys and a way to build up their forces. This is some shady stuff that puts her on the same ground as Valtor and others, who have tried to control/change people by using them for whatever they wanted. Tecna committed to using her own people like one of computer tools like it was nothing.

Flora is our third case here. Her wish was to have all the people of Earth respect nature. How is it once again using magic to control/change people ethical? Yes it was a season based on saving the oceans, but in the end, is no better then others who have changed people via magic. She may have done this for a greater good, but you can't just force people to change instantly and is rather morally questionable.

Not to mention it goes against Flora's nature of being a kind and gentle person of forcing people to accept a view point so suddenly. The Earth fairies in the Amazon could have done something in a better moral way to achieve this goal over time then Flora could have with a wish. Of course, this was also a way to inhibit Tritannus from getting even more powerful from Earth's trash and to move the story forward. When does throwing out ones morals became justifiable to achieve a victory in such a way?

So in the end, what are your thoughts on this matter? From a non story stand point, are these three wishes immoral or moral? Have Tecna, Stella and Flora grayed themselves toward slowly head down the root of possibly becoming villains in the end?

Probably they didn't use the wishes todo forcefully "control" their wills as we understand,  probably they use the wish only to "show" to the target of the wishes what they could losas if they maintain the sale pattern, something similar todo how the three ghost of christmas show to scrooge what will happen him if he don change his way, and i hace the question; stella's patente still together por separated?
Yes they are still apart, and at the end of the day, it was their choice. It was not like "Do this or something bad happens", they chose to do it because in their minds, it was the right thing to do, though two out of three wishes we don't see in effect, like at all. Stella's wish was visible, but that doesn't mean that her parents gotten back together.

Then the sirenix wishes was more like a epiphany han some kind of mind control, then i don't see ambiguety in their wishes

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yukai5
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PostSubject: Re: The Morality of Three Sirenix Wishes   Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:37 am

@talgoose wrote:
@yukai5 wrote:
@talgoose wrote:
@zerowing21 wrote:
Now, I'm sure this may have been talked to death, but this is my own view point on the matter. We all know the Winx (minus Musa) each had a wish for pleasing destiny and used it for whatever they wanted. Three of these wishes while in the show are presented as being good to the overall plot or the character, are in fact morally questionable at best.

Stella's wish was to have her parents to get along and see eye to eye with each other after years of fighting and what not. This is a selfish wish, but its also using powerful magic to change how a person acts and behaves. This isn't very ethical and moral to any extent and of course magic of this type has been condemned earlier in the series when Valtor altered Radius mind to be controlled by Chimera and her mother, which again was done out of a selfish reason. So in the end, how is Stella moral and in the right for doing this, while Chimera and her mother (Albeit thought Valtor) are not, when they've done the exact same thing?

The same can be said of Tecna's wish. While the king of Zenith did not want to go to battle with Tritannus, her wish in the end was to get the people of zenith to be more connected to the magic dimension. How is this ethical to push an entire planet to try and connect with others though mind altering magic and then use them by pushing them into a war, even if the king at first wasn't interested in the fight and later agrees to go to it because of the altering of his mind? This is amoral behavior from Tecna, but presented as morally right due to the Winx being the good guys and a way to build up their forces. This is some shady stuff that puts her on the same ground as Valtor and others, who have tried to control/change people by using them for whatever they wanted. Tecna committed to using her own people like one of computer tools like it was nothing.

Flora is our third case here. Her wish was to have all the people of Earth respect nature. How is it once again using magic to control/change people ethical? Yes it was a season based on saving the oceans, but in the end, is no better then others who have changed people via magic. She may have done this for a greater good, but you can't just force people to change instantly and is rather morally questionable.

Not to mention it goes against Flora's nature of being a kind and gentle person of forcing people to accept a view point so suddenly. The Earth fairies in the Amazon could have done something in a better moral way to achieve this goal over time then Flora could have with a wish. Of course, this was also a way to inhibit Tritannus from getting even more powerful from Earth's trash and to move the story forward. When does throwing out ones morals became justifiable to achieve a victory in such a way?

So in the end, what are your thoughts on this matter? From a non story stand point, are these three wishes immoral or moral? Have Tecna, Stella and Flora grayed themselves toward slowly head down the root of possibly becoming villains in the end?

Probably they didn't use the wishes todo forcefully "control" their wills as we understand,  probably they use the wish only to "show" to the target of the wishes what they could losas if they maintain the sale pattern, something similar todo how the three ghost of christmas show to scrooge what will happen him if he don change his way, and i hace the question; stella's patente still together por separated?
Yes they are still apart, and at the end of the day, it was their choice. It was not like "Do this or something bad happens", they chose to do it because in their minds, it was the right thing to do, though two out of three wishes we don't see in effect, like at all. Stella's wish was visible, but that doesn't mean that her parents gotten back together.

Then the sirenix wishes was more like a epiphany han some kind of mind control, then i don't see ambiguety in their wishes
You're kinda missing the point here. I'm trying to say is, it's not like the Christmas Carol. The girls don't get to see a consequence if they don't make the wish, good or bad. Look at Musa. She didn't use her wish, and nothing has happened to her because of that. Like Zero has stated:

@zerowing21 wrote:
The wish just activates and the people just change according to it since its a powerful magical force.

It's not a tool to force someone to do one thing or have that mind control factor. We don't see either Flora or Tecna's wish being seen active automaticly (I mean, if you watched S6 and S7, Tecna's parents aren't controlled by their daughter's wish). If it was that easy, then we would have more people in Zenith using less tech or "we" respect the world we live in more than ever before, but it's not shown it's proof, so that's a waste of 2 wishes. And if you look at a different angle, zero does have a good point about it.

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zerowing21
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PostSubject: Re: The Morality of Three Sirenix Wishes   Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:06 pm

I think there might have been some minor changes seen due to Tecna's wish if you check season 6 and 7. The climate isn't as cold as it seemed as in season 5 and it looked like the populaces was a bit emotional, but that could be just my perception on those two eps.

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"But perhaps victory is in the simpler things that you've long forgotten—things that require a smaller, more honest soul." Professor Ozpin, RWBY
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yukai5
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PostSubject: Re: The Morality of Three Sirenix Wishes   Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:24 pm

@zerowing21 wrote:
I think there might have been some minor changes seen due to Tecna's wish if you check season 6 and 7. The climate isn't as cold as it seemed as in season 5 and it looked like the populaces was a bit emotional, but that could be just my perception on those two eps.

Well, if you think about it, Tecna's parents accepted Timmy rather quickly after that bf test, which could be more difficult pre-wish.

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zerowing21
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PostSubject: Re: The Morality of Three Sirenix Wishes   Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:30 pm

Yes, there is that tiny fact too. They were willing to accept him pretty fast and he did start working with them as well in season 7. The job might not have even happened if Tecna hadn't done the wish.

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The Avatar was done by Chrissie.

"But perhaps victory is in the simpler things that you've long forgotten—things that require a smaller, more honest soul." Professor Ozpin, RWBY
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PostSubject: Re: The Morality of Three Sirenix Wishes   Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:54 am

I feel like that Musa use her wish because she did not want it to use it in vain because that wish did not have a purpose. True if she use it on helping the people of Melody but she already had a plan long before the series started to put a lot of issues in front of her face.

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